On Change with Petro du Pisani · Episode 009

#009 Gail Cameron | Coaching and African Leadership

25 October 2018 · 32 min · as at 2018-10-25

Gail Cameron (guest) · Petro du Pisani (host)

Themes: Coaching career evolution · Emotional intelligence · Social intelligence · Mindfulness and balance · Quantum physics of leadership · Resonant leadership · African leadership qualities · Intentional change process

Listen to the episode on iono.fm · MP3

About the guest

Gail Cameron

founder and managing director · Image Excellence Group

Founder and managing director of the Image Excellence Group with more than 25 years experience as a leadership coach; fellow of Trinity College London; author of Voice Excellence (1994) and Authentic African Leadership (2013).

iegroup.co.za

In Gail's own words:

“So I studied speech and drama through Trinity College, London, and when I started off, I was quite hard-headed, and I just wanted to get a job and get away from home.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [04:23]
“And then, you know, I'd started off lecturing at FUBA, the Federated Union of Black Artists, and so I'd had a lot of experience in being a voice and speech coach. And I'd written a book called How to Improve Your Accent.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [05:13]
“I think I started lecturing at Fubo in 1985, so, and we started the iGroup so long before coaching was popular, long before anybody knew what a coach Was.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [07:17]
“You know, I've coached some of the greatest leaders in this country, and I've absolutely no doubt in my mind that the leaders who made a difference were in power. They were either at courage, neutrality, freedom, love.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [21:05]
“But, I mean, we've never advertised, so all of our work is word of mouth, and it is incredible. We coach people all over the world.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [28:55]

Guest details come from the published episode notes or the guest's own words in the episode.

Episode analysis

Analysis by AI, drawn only from this episode; every point links to the moment it rests on.

Host Petro du Pisani talks with Gail Cameron, founder of the Image Excellence Group, about how her coaching practice grew from voice and speech work into leadership and life coaching. They draw on excerpts from her book Authentic African Leadership. Gail explains emotional and social intelligence, mindfulness as a remedy for burnout, and an energy-based 'quantum physics' view of leadership, including a map of consciousness. She then describes resonant leadership, the qualities she thinks South Africa needs, and the steps of an intentional change journey in coaching. She draws on personal hardship and more than thirty years in the field.

Key ideas

Intentional change journey

  1. Become aware of who you are, including your strengths.
  2. Understand your growth areas.
  3. Develop a learning agenda from that awareness.
  4. Work through trusting relationships with your coach and people around you.
  5. Practise the new behaviour in safe environments.
  6. Try it in higher risk environments, where behavioural change occurs.

As described in the episode: [26:01]▸ [26:13]▸ [26:46]▸

Lessons

Who it's for

Managers, professionals facing burnout, and people considering executive or life coaching who want an experienced South African coach's view on emotional intelligence, mindfulness and leadership, including listeners interested in energy-based ideas about leadership.

Facts stated in the episode

Questions this episode answers

In their own words

Longer stretches of the conversation, word for word from the transcript, turn by turn.

From divorce and a son's illness to coaching

Note (AI): Gail's own account of how financial necessity and her son's near death shaped her move from voice coaching into leadership and life coaching.

Gail Cameron, guest · [04:57]So it's, again, life experiences. So having just got divorced, I had two small boys, and the youngest was not even a year old, and I had to support them. I had no other means of supporting them. And so I, I realized I'd have to get a job, a real job. And then, you know, I'd started off lecturing at FUBA, the Federated Union of Black Artists, and so …

Read the full passage (426 words, 04:57–07:05)

Gail Cameron, guest · [04:57]So it's, again, life experiences. So having just got divorced, I had two small boys, and the youngest was not even a year old, and I had to support them. I had no other means of supporting them. And so I, I realized I'd have to get a job, a real job. And then, you know, I'd started off lecturing at FUBA, the Federated Union of Black Artists, and so I'd had a lot of experience in being a voice and speech coach. And I'd written a book called How to Improve Your Accent. And so I went to the bank and I said, I need a bank loan. I want to get this book published. And the bank manager said, come back with some cash flow projections and budget. And I can remember phoning a friend of mine and saying, how do I do this? I've no idea. And he helped me put it together. They lent me the money. I published the book. And what was overwhelming was, was when the book was published. Then People would start calling and saying, I've suffered the same social and professional discrimination. Can you help me? And that's when I realized I, you know, I had a business case.

Petro du Pisani, host · [05:58]So it started off very much with voice and communication type coaching, but then you evolved from there. So how did that evolution happen?

Gail Cameron, guest · [06:07]Yes, it was more communication, and then I sort of got into leadership, but I was a very kind of hard-nosed, you know, leadership coach, and you were either right or you were wrong, and if you didn't want to sort of get the stuff, you had to get off the bus. And then in 2000, I almost lost my youngest son. He had a brain tumor, and basically he was, he was going to die. And a miracle happened, and basically his life was saved. And I can remember that night as he was dying, I basically, in the ICU, I sort of went on my knees and I started praying, and I just said, if you let him live, I'll do your work. And then it was the strangest thing, because it was very imperceptible how my work changed, but I was not even conscious of how it had shifted. A lot of clients started coming to me then who had serious obstacles in their lives, and how could I help them? And then my work moved more into life coaching. I guess that's what it's been over the last 18 years.

How her coaching offer evolved over decades

Note (AI): Traces the sequence from image and voice work through business English and EQ to life coaching, and names lack of self-regard as the core problem.

Gail Cameron, guest · [08:19]So it's interesting how the whole business coaching and the coaching concept has evolved. So we started off with voice and speech communication. We did a lot of image consulting in those days. And then the leadership evolved, and then I thought, well, you can look good, sound good, but if you don't command the language, you're not going anywhere either. And I'd come from a second language speaking environment. …

Read the full passage (317 words, 08:19–10:09)

Gail Cameron, guest · [08:19]So it's interesting how the whole business coaching and the coaching concept has evolved. So we started off with voice and speech communication. We did a lot of image consulting in those days. And then the leadership evolved, and then I thought, well, you can look good, sound good, but if you don't command the language, you're not going anywhere either. And I'd come from a second language speaking environment. So then we started doing business English. That became quite a big focus. And then I realized, no, Is, is definitely another piece missing here because, you know, especially when a client had an obstacle, it was impeding them from performing at the optimum. And that's really how emotional intelligence came into it. From emotional intelligence, the communicative arm of that, which is social intelligence, evolved from about 2003. I think that's where it was first observed at a Swedish conference. And then, of course, I realized, well, it's an inside job. It's really about how people are coping with what's going on in their lives, not necessarily their professional skills, and that's really how the life coaching evolved. So it really has, you know, come full circle, I think.

Petro du Pisani, host · [09:29]That's so interesting. What are some of the biggest transformations you've seen, and how has that made you feel?

Gail Cameron, guest · [09:35]I think some of the biggest transformations have really been about People suddenly waking up to their own potential. I think that's the most rewarding one. The greatest dysfunctionality I've seen in thirty years of being in this business is the lack of self-regard. And I think all of us, to a greater or less extent, suffer from a lack of self-regard. So the greatest transformation will come from when suddenly that person realizes that they actually had it all the time and that the power has been restored into their own hands where it was all along.

Emotional intelligence: the Bar-On instrument and how EQ learns

Note (AI): Explains what EQ measures, why it can be developed unlike personality or IQ, and her video role-play technique for building awareness.

Gail Cameron, guest · [10:44]So the great thing is that very few people know this, but that a South African leads the field globally in emotional intelligence. So Professor Baran did his PhD at Rhodes, and it took him seventeen years to develop this instrument, and it's called the Baran EQI. And what emotional intelligence does, it looks at intrapersonal competencies, which is kind of how you know yourself, how you can regulate those …

Read the full passage (310 words, 10:44–12:46)

Gail Cameron, guest · [10:44]So the great thing is that very few people know this, but that a South African leads the field globally in emotional intelligence. So Professor Baran did his PhD at Rhodes, and it took him seventeen years to develop this instrument, and it's called the Baran EQI. And what emotional intelligence does, it looks at intrapersonal competencies, which is kind of how you know yourself, how you can regulate those emotions, but it also looks at the way in which you can read other people and how you would respond to that. So it's a beautiful instrument. It gives a scientific detail. But the interesting thing about EQ is that ninety-three percent of leadership effectiveness is entrenched in emotional intelligence. In fact, technical competency today is regarded as a baseline competence. It will get you the job, it will get the job done, but the biggest difference lies in the way in which you do that job. So therefore, it's different to personality assessments, because you can't really shift the personality. It's completely different to IQ, because that deals with cognitive elements, but you can develop every aspect of emotional intelligence, and I think that's the great thing. But the important thing with developing emotional intelligence is how the emotional intelligent brain learns. So it learns through awareness, dedication, and commitment. So it doesn't learn through a logical linear process. So the best way to do this with clients, although they really kick against it at times, is to video them, put them into role-play simulations so that they can see themselves. And especially people who've got these very high processing left brains, you know, like accountants and like engineers, especially, when they see themselves is when they realize, okay, so perhaps I can tweak this or that. And that's the awareness that precedes change that creates the behavioral change.

Three pathways to mindfulness, hope and compassion

Note (AI): Gail's practical answer to burnout: self-knowledge, values work, hope and compassion, framed as a counter to the sacrifice syndrome.

Gail Cameron, guest · [17:23]The only way to avert this is to open the pathways to mindfulness. So there's actually three pathways we open. So the first is conscious awareness of self. Heart, mind, body, spirit. And it's answering those big questions like, who am I? So there's a lot of people I coach who have no idea who they are. They have no idea that your thoughts create your life. A gift we've …

Read the full passage (373 words, 17:23–19:40)

Gail Cameron, guest · [17:23]The only way to avert this is to open the pathways to mindfulness. So there's actually three pathways we open. So the first is conscious awareness of self. Heart, mind, body, spirit. And it's answering those big questions like, who am I? So there's a lot of people I coach who have no idea who they are. They have no idea that your thoughts create your life. A gift we've been given is that we can create with our thoughts. Equally, we can dig a big hole and bury ourselves, and that's where the sacrifice syndrome comes in. But you can also use those thoughts, you can change them to a positive frequency. You can change your thoughts, feelings, and intentions, and when you do that, it changes your life. So first of all, go in and find out who you are. And you can do this by looking at exercises about your personal vision. You can look at your future vision. So what is your philosophical orientation? There's nothing new about this stuff. Sophocles said, know thyself. So this is a way of excavating and, and really getting in touch with who you are in a very deep way. Understanding your values is critical. Our greatest conflicts occur when those values are compromised. Why? Because they're not negotiable. Most people don't even know what they are, and they evolve over time. So it's actually quite an easy exercise. And what we'll do is I'll send you some exercises that people can do to excavate and know themselves if they want to explore this further. It's really not complicated. When you've opened mindfulness, it leads to hope. And it is when hope is aroused, it leads to compassion. And compassion is empathy and caring in action, and it starts with the individual. You cannot save anybody until you put your own life jacket on first. So basically, when you work on those three elements, it opens up neurons begin to fire on the left-hand side of the prefrontal cortex. The good hormones flood the body. You do that over a long period, it leads to feeling excited, optimistic, hopeful, looking forward to the future. So it's really not a complicated process at all.

The map of consciousness and leaders in power

Note (AI): Sets out her energy-frequency view of leadership, using Gandhi and Mandela as examples and linking it to resonant versus dissonant leaders.

Gail Cameron, guest · [20:10]We are powerful energetic beings, and the interesting thing is that You can increase your frequency. So the whole map of consciousness has happened. We measure it in microwatts of energy, and they are very low frequency vibrations, so at the very bottom sits shame, which is twenty microwatts, and we can see it in shame cultures, where women are banished, stoned to death. Then as you go up the …

Read the full passage (440 words, 20:10–22:45)

Gail Cameron, guest · [20:10]We are powerful energetic beings, and the interesting thing is that You can increase your frequency. So the whole map of consciousness has happened. We measure it in microwatts of energy, and they are very low frequency vibrations, so at the very bottom sits shame, which is twenty microwatts, and we can see it in shame cultures, where women are banished, stoned to death. Then as you go up the ladder, it's kind of guilt, and then grief. We are all plunged to levels of grief at moments of our life, but it's to stay down there is destructive. And then it goes up through fear, anger, and even pride. Pride is a negative. So one of our big banks had it in its strapline a few years ago. They've removed it because they've been exposed to the map of consciousness. And then we get up to courage, and courage is actually the point at which everything moves into power. You know, I've coached some of the greatest leaders in this country, and I've absolutely no doubt in my mind that the leaders who made a difference were in power. They were either at courage, neutrality, freedom, love. So it explains why a small, feeble man with the construct of Satyagraha could overturn the British Empire. So Gandhi was completely in power. It explains why a man with love and forgiveness in his heart, despite being in jail for 27 years, could come out of jail and negotiate his country out of a revolution. Mandela was completely in power. These different energetic frequencies have been measured. When you're in the lower frequencies, that's where all the crocodiles are swimming, and that's when life is difficult. People are taking chunks out of you. So the responsibility of life is to increase your consciousness. When you do that, you, to a certain extent, raise the consciousness of everybody around you. So we measure it in laboratories. So just as an example, I bring two people into a laboratory, measure their heart rate, temperature, and they're completely different. We put them together for a fifteen-minute conversation, measure them again. They were incomplete, some part ago with one another, beginning to reflect one another's body rhythms. So people catch feelings. The person who adds a stronger seasoning into that is the leader. So therefore, being a resonant leader, being positive, catching people doing things right, and believing in people, you create a whole virtuous cycle where reflective parts of the brain open, and you will be able to stretch and reach. But your dissonant leaders will obviously have the opposite effect. It's all physics.

The intentional change journey in coaching

Note (AI): Step-by-step description of how coaching produces behavioural change, and why clients who are sent against their will struggle until they take ownership.

Gail Cameron, guest · [26:01]So the key is self-awareness. We also measure it in terms of emotional intelligence, but without self-awareness, it's very, very difficult to create the change. So if we look at an intentional change journey, and this is a scientific process, you first need to be aware of who you are, and that is knowing where your strengths are. That's equally important because those strengths need to be bolstered, but then …

Read the full passage (245 words, 26:01–27:29)

Gail Cameron, guest · [26:01]So the key is self-awareness. We also measure it in terms of emotional intelligence, but without self-awareness, it's very, very difficult to create the change. So if we look at an intentional change journey, and this is a scientific process, you first need to be aware of who you are, and that is knowing where your strengths are. That's equally important because those strengths need to be bolstered, but then also understanding, so where are my growth areas? And then developing a learning agenda from that, but it's got to be done through trusting relationships with your coach and other people who are around you. So that may be a line manager or it may be your partner in your life, but trusting relationships. And then you should get an opportunity to practice it. So in safe environments. And then you get to try it in higher risk environments, and that's where the new neurons develop, and that's how behavioral change occurs. So it's actually quite a simple process, but the self-awareness is key. So we've sometimes had hostages, people who've been sent there because they're not achieving, for whatever reason, the objectives that company wants. And it's very, very difficult to kind of turn that person around until they begin to realize, well, actually, this is going to contribute to my personal development. It doesn't matter where I go, what I do, but this can improve my life, and that's when they take ownership.

Quotes

“If you're in business and you can really read what people are thinking, feeling, intending, it gives you the upper hand in any communication.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [00:06]
“You cannot save anybody until you put your own life jacket on first.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [00:31]
“You are your greatest desires, because within you, you have the capability to create with your thoughts. Choose the positive route. It's in your hands.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [00:40]
“And I said, the best coaches have the deepest scars.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [03:27]
“The greatest dysfunctionality I've seen in thirty years of being in this business is the lack of self-regard.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [09:45]
“It explains why a man with love and forgiveness in his heart, despite being in jail for 27 years, could come out of jail and negotiate his country out of a revolution. Mandela was completely in power.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [21:26]
“When you're in the lower frequencies, that's where all the crocodiles are swimming, and that's when life is difficult. People are taking chunks out of you.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [21:42]
“But the resonant leader creates environments in which teams catch fire, break the records.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [23:10]
“you have no control over the vagaries that are going to come across your desk every day, but what you can control is your attitude.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [25:26]
“But, I mean, we've never advertised, so all of our work is word of mouth,”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [28:55]

What was said, by topic

Coaching career evolution

“I think there's always been a caring side to me, but I think it's life circumstances that mould you. So it's like a client said to me one day, so what makes a good coach? And I said, the best coaches have the deepest scars.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [03:16]
“So I studied speech and drama through Trinity College, London, and when I started off, I was quite hard-headed, and I just wanted to get a job and get away from home.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [04:23]
“So having just got divorced, I had two small boys, and the youngest was not even a year old, and I had to support them. I had no other means of supporting them.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [04:59]
“And then, you know, I'd started off lecturing at FUBA, the Federated Union of Black Artists, and so I'd had a lot of experience in being a voice and speech coach. And I'd written a book called How to Improve Your Accent.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [05:13]
“And what was overwhelming was, was when the book was published. Then People would start calling and saying, I've suffered the same social and professional discrimination. Can you help me? And that's when I realized I, you know, I had a business case.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [05:44]
“And then in 2000, I almost lost my youngest son. He had a brain tumor, and basically he was, he was going to die. And a miracle happened, and basically his life was saved.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [06:20]
“A lot of clients started coming to me then who had serious obstacles in their lives, and how could I help them? And then my work moved more into life coaching. I guess that's what it's been over the last 18 years.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [06:53]
“I think I started lecturing at Fubo in 1985, so, and we started the iGroup so long before coaching was popular, long before anybody knew what a coach Was.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [07:17]
“So we started off with voice and speech communication. We did a lot of image consulting in those days. And then the leadership evolved, and then I thought, well, you can look good, sound good, but if you don't command the language, you're not going anywhere either.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [08:24]
“The greatest dysfunctionality I've seen in thirty years of being in this business is the lack of self-regard. And I think all of us, to a greater or less extent, suffer from a lack of self-regard.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [09:45]
“But, I mean, we've never advertised, so all of our work is word of mouth, and it is incredible. We coach people all over the world.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [28:55]

African leadership qualities

“Yes, I believe the great lessons in life come from hardship, and it's really only hardship that there are gains of self-development, although most of us are trying very hard to escape it, escape the very lessons that we've come here to learn, but it really is the moulding influence.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [04:02]
“In South Africa, we've been going through this massive change of leadership over the last couple of years, and I think had a quite an emotional journey from when we became a new democracy in 1994 to now, to going through this last couple of years of state capture and all of that.”
— Petro du Pisani, host · [23:22]
“It's really about thinking big, new, and ahead, but it's being able to communicate that vision from a mutually beneficial platform to allow the follower to take ownership. Leadership's about followers.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [24:00]
“Most of the effective leaders will align themselves with a set of values quite early in life, and they will navigate unwaveringly by those values. Then also reality.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [24:27]
“And lastly, I think one of the most important ones is courage, is having the courage to live your life to its full potential, to go where the pain is.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [24:49]
“he said, you have no control over the vagaries that are going to come across your desk every day, but what you can control is your attitude.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [25:25]

Emotional intelligence

“And that's really how emotional intelligence came into it. From emotional intelligence, the communicative arm of that, which is social intelligence, evolved from about 2003. I think that's where it was first observed at a Swedish conference.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [08:57]
“So the great thing is that very few people know this, but that a South African leads the field globally in emotional intelligence. So Professor Baran did his PhD at Rhodes, and it took him seventeen years to develop this instrument, and it's called the Baran EQI.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [10:44]
“But the interesting thing about EQ is that ninety-three percent of leadership effectiveness is entrenched in emotional intelligence. In fact, technical competency today is regarded as a baseline competence. It will get you the job, it will get the job done, but the biggest difference lies in the way in which you do that job.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [11:24]
“So therefore, it's different to personality assessments, because you can't really shift the personality. It's completely different to IQ, because that deals with cognitive elements, but you can develop every aspect of emotional intelligence, and I think that's the great thing.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [11:45]
“So it learns through awareness, dedication, and commitment. So it doesn't learn through a logical linear process.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [12:07]
“So the best way to do this with clients, although they really kick against it at times, is to video them, put them into role-play simulations so that they can see themselves.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [12:15]

Social intelligence

“And that's also because most of us are not present. We're not mindful. So we're in a meeting, but we're actually thinking about yesterday and we're planning the future.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [13:09]
“people at the very top end of the bell curve, in terms of IQ, it's almost as though that IQ muscle has strengthened at the expense of the EQ muscle.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [14:14]
“So the leader in this area in the world is a guy called Professor Paul Ekman. He's developed the micro-expression technique. And you can go online and you can learn, you can sensitize yourself. So everybody at the FBI has to learn micro-expression technique.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [14:45]
“if you, a US embassy official working in an embassy is filling in an application for a candidate, and he notices a fleeting expression that he doesn't like, goes next door, he puts this man's name into the Interpol computer, up comes his name on the most wanted list.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [15:02]

Mindfulness and balance

“So I work in a department at the moment where many of us spend a lot of time away from home, and you have to really make a concerted effort to find balance.”
— Petro du Pisani, host · [15:58]
“So the only pathway to success is inside. It is an inside job, and I work with many young professionals who burn out, so it's called a sacrifice syndrome. That's a clinical term.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [16:11]
“And it's the stress hormone that makes all the changes. It raises your blood pressure, it increases your heart rate, and if it's left unchecked over long periods, it can trigger anabolic endorphins in the body which cause disease.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [17:05]
“The only way to avert this is to open the pathways to mindfulness. So there's actually three pathways we open. So the first is conscious awareness of self. Heart, mind, body, spirit.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [17:23]
“Understanding your values is critical. Our greatest conflicts occur when those values are compromised. Why? Because they're not negotiable. Most people don't even know what they are, and they evolve over time.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [18:36]
“When you've opened mindfulness, it leads to hope. And it is when hope is aroused, it leads to compassion. And compassion is empathy and caring in action, and it starts with the individual.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [19:01]

Quantum physics of leadership

“So the whole map of consciousness has happened. We measure it in microwatts of energy, and they are very low frequency vibrations, so at the very bottom sits shame, which is twenty microwatts, and we can see it in shame cultures, where women are banished, stoned to death.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [20:16]
“You know, I've coached some of the greatest leaders in this country, and I've absolutely no doubt in my mind that the leaders who made a difference were in power. They were either at courage, neutrality, freedom, love.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [21:05]
“So just as an example, I bring two people into a laboratory, measure their heart rate, temperature, and they're completely different. We put them together for a fifteen-minute conversation, measure them again.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [22:02]
“It depends on, you know, what you describe as success, but I really think it's not about having more. It's really about your behavior, and we can all, in terms of that behavior, create a positive life for ourselves,”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [30:28]

Resonant leadership

“So people catch feelings. The person who adds a stronger seasoning into that is the leader. So therefore, being a resonant leader, being positive, catching people doing things right, and believing in people, you create a whole virtuous cycle where reflective parts of the brain open, and you will be able to stretch and reach.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [22:19]
“So resonant leaders are positive, they're optimistic, they have a sense of humor, by the way, that's an EQ hallmark. They like people. They catch people doing things right. Dissonant leaders are negative, cynical, abrasive, catch people doing things wrong.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [22:52]

Intentional change process

“So if we look at an intentional change journey, and this is a scientific process, you first need to be aware of who you are, and that is knowing where your strengths are.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [26:13]
“And then you should get an opportunity to practice it. So in safe environments. And then you get to try it in higher risk environments, and that's where the new neurons develop, and that's how behavioral change occurs.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [26:46]
“So we've sometimes had hostages, people who've been sent there because they're not achieving, for whatever reason, the objectives that company wants.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [27:04]
“So he'd been in the hospitality industry. It's quite a brutal industry because of the hours that they work and so on, and his life experiences. But the wonderful thing was that he was ready.”
— Gail Cameron, guest · [27:44]

Episode notes (as published)

From the episode notes published with the podcast.

Petro du Pisani talks to Gail Cameron (MD of the Image Excellence Group) on how executive and life coaching has evolved over the past 30 years. They discuss excerpts from Gail's book "Authentic African Leadership," and touch on topics such as Emotional Intelligence, Social Intelligence, Resonant Leadership and the Quantum Physics of Leadership. iegroup.co.za · Connect with Petro · Solid Gold Podcasts

Every quotation and passage on this page is copied word for word from the episode audio transcript and linked to the moment it was said. Quotations are never written or altered by AI; topic labels, passage notes and the episode analysis are AI-generated. Guest details come from the published episode notes or the guest's own words.

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