#015 Tracey Swanepoel, Lisa Shippey and Bernard Swanepoel | The power of storytelling to inspire change

Tracey Swanepoel, guest · [03:51]I spent quite a long time in advertising, a few years, at the big agencies, but in that process, I think what I realized was, you know, advertising, the question you always ask is, what makes this different? What makes us different, the company? And nine times out of ten, the answer comes back as our people. You know, our people are these amazing, you know, they're amazing, and they, they, they are differentiator. And it got me interested, it sparked my interest in, are the people, do they know that they are sort of the, the key deliverers of, of the competitive advantage? So I got interested in, and, and went to, to speak to some of these people and, you know, find out, like, are they sort of creating the magic there? And of course, you can imagine, they were like, oh. If only this day would end, you know. So what happened was I perceived there to be a real opportunity inside companies to apply some of the principles that I'd seen work very effectively externally in the advertising space. Story, segmentation, branding, and I did my MBA dissertation on that, very theoretical. I had lots of ideas, and I was really looking for a client or a place to see if any of this would work. And that's where I intersected with, in a very unlikely way, the gold mining industry, who at the time, I mean, mining, as you know, it's sort of almost a microcosm of our society. It's got every demographic, and one of the key challenges is how do you get a rock drill operator to understand, care about, believe, deliver, you know, on things like strategy that are conceptually In the boardroom. So I guess the big thing that, that happened there was I found a client, that had a, that I guess there was an alignment in terms of, what, what we wanted to do, you know, in terms of, of changing how things were, and that was harmony. And I feel like I shouldn't, I should leave it there and carry on the story, but, but that was the beginning of quite a life-changing experience in terms of career, personally, in terms of really being able to deliver on things that, that change people's lives and, and do things differently.

Bernard Swanepoel, guest · [08:05]Harmony was, was interesting because it was earmarked for closure. Its official business plan was called Closure with Dignity. You can imagine the excitement in the life of forty thousand miners to go underground into a harsh environment, to pursue closure with dignity, you know. Of course, it didn't close. We managed to turn it around, made it profitable, set out on a growth strategy, and that got me to the point where it was weird. It was great. I mean, you know, I was on the front page of newspapers, magazines, wrote about the magic Harmony Way. When I presented in New Orleans or London, you know, often it was like, you know, standing room only, and yet back at home, back in Malcolm in a free state, I got a sense that the workers were not as excited about this corporate strategy as the shareholders and my management team was. And so I set out to say, there must be a way. If we are a great story, if this harmony story is, is so good, why is it that most of the people in the company don't feel that, don't live that, you know, aren't aligned? And, and so, I, I really came from the industry, I knew what didn't work, I, had no idea what would work. And so I started looking around for fresh ideas, different ideas, and bumped into a crazy bunch of people of which Tracey was just one. To be fair, she was probably the most normal of that crazy bunch, you know what I mean? And so, that's really the sort of the journey up to when I, as a, as a sort of supposedly successful, CEO and business leader, realized that if we want to, bring our people along, we're gonna have to, do things, a little bit differently.

Tracey Swanepoel, guest · [22:19]the first meeting was, on the Monday, and we, we walked into this very, sort of conventional mining company, sort of plush carpets, you know, pictures on the wall of old founders looking down at you. And, you know, I'll never forget that meeting of sort of, there were sort of ten male white faces looking at me across that polished mahogany table as I sort of, you know, expounded on my views of how we needed to change the industry. And the, the CEO of that company at the time sort of looked me up and down and said, so, lovey, do you really expect me to believe you're gonna go out there and change the way that my mines operate? And, I mean, it was, it was so patronizing, and I sort of died a thousand deaths, and I thought, that's it, I'm not doing that. So I said to my partner, listen, there is no ways. we're not doing this, we're not going. And he said, listen, but we've got this, this Harmony meeting set up for Thursday. We've got to do it. Like, we can't get out of it. It's with the executive team. And I said, listen, I'm not going. You go. I'm, you know, anyway, long story short, he convinced me to go along, and it really was, you know, as Monty Python says, and now for something completely different. Harmony at the time had just done a hostile takeover of Ranfontein. I don't think Ranfontein liked them very much, because they didn't have any officers. So we had to meet at the, the Ranfontein Club, which was this, in this, I don't think the club was too bad, but they put us in an awful room of sort of musty and old smelling and mismatched tables and chairs. And I remember standing there waiting for this, you know, at the time Harmony's profile in the press was very high, and they, you know, called sort of mavericks of the industry, and I thought, how are they going to arrive? You know, are they going to come in a helicopter or how, you know? And out of the corner of my eye, I spotted a I thought it was a waiter in sort of jeans, very, very informally dressed, sort of golf shirt, slip slops, and I was just about to, to ask him, you know, please bring me another Diet Coke, and this guy stepped forward and said, hi, I'm Bernard Swanepoel. So luckily I didn't make that mistake. but the meeting that followed with Bernard and his team was just, you know, a, a life-changing meeting because, you know, yes, it was gold mining, not an industry that I ever thought, or mining, that I ever thought I would go into, but it was about what, you know, Harmony's purpose was, to change the industry, to do things differently, to turn conventional thinking on its head. and, and, you know, that, that Harmony story was something that was real, and that I bought into right from the outset. So if, in answer to your question, it was the Harmony story that really did change my life.

Bernard Swanepoel, guest · [32:10]Twenty-one year old graduate. I was very clever in my own mind. I just had a mining engineering degree, and I was forced to go through all the levels in organization, starting to get my shift to get a blasting license to become a miner. Now, in those days, you then had to share the change houses with the miners. That's where towards the end of the apartheid years, so there was job reservation. these were old white men, often having finished matric or so, because, I mean, it was job protection, and mining was one of the sort of protected jobs. And I would sit in the change house there. Now, you know what it's like in a change house at the end of the shift. Most men, it's not like the Springbok change house. We were not wearing, underpants in the national colors. It's typically naked old men sitting around, being served their bad coffee by the change house boss boy, as they were called. And what amazed me was the quality of conversations. When I was a graduate, I was young, I was inexperienced, I was living the challenges of mining on a marginal, loss-making gold mine, and some of these guys had deep insight, and all of them cared. Then you would go out, and the conversations changed, and you would report to the shift boss, and he would say, yeah, yeah, but you can't say that, you know, we have to say we're on target, you know. And by the time you, you know, spoke to the mine captain, this was now higher English and no longer factual. And it, it stayed with me throughout my career that deeper into the organization, firstly, the people care, and secondly, they actually have got some really significant practical suggestions, as per your own story. You know, if you go and you find the stories in the organization, that may not necessarily change the strategy, but it will make the link between the strategy and what is happening on the ground real. And that's what we do in Thinkspiration, as you know. I mean, Tracey's got an amazing ability to conceptualize all these McKinsey PowerPoint slides into a visual story, an analogy. But before you can Make that a successful leadership and communication tool, you need to go onto the ground, under the ground, in some cases, and go and listen to the people, and hear where they are, because that, that disconnect is the misalignment or the lack of alignment which is costing companies billions and billions and billions of rand, because we say we are going north, and we forgot to tell our people, and they don't know where north is, and they don't agree with north, and so they are off into their own directions, and no disciplinary procedure or standing operating procedure or anything can fix that. So the leadership obligation of painting a compelling future That grounded in the reality of where your people, are at that time. I mean, that's leadership 101.

Petro du Pisani, host · [35:58]Through the thousands of conversations our group had last year, I, I came to the conclusion that almost every single person we spoke to wanted to make a difference. They wanted to, they wanted to be able to show up at work and add value and be a person who's actually, I didn't come across a, a certain, a single person who was there to create chaos. You know what I mean? They were all there to, what, they want to provide for their families, they want to go home on time, they don't want to have to be underground for longer than they have to be. And, you know, just getting into a, a train carriage or, with a, a, a train operator and spending his journey with him. So he, from, going from the, from the one side of the mine to the other side of the mine, roughly forty minutes, sit and just have a forty minute conversation with this person. And when you get off at the other side, he said, you know, nobody's ever done that. Nobody's ever, nobody's ever, from, I've never seen anybody from management come and sit for forty minutes with me next to you and listen to all the things that's bothering me. And he'd had a couple of simple suggestions, like he'd say, you see this crossing we're going through at the moment? It doesn't have a gate. So if he wanted to be a safer operation or prevent fatalities, that sort of thing, if you just put a gate for us here, you know, that closes over the road where I'm going over with my, my train, it's going to make a huge difference. That's the, that's the, that's the part, because you asked the question. So in your daily life of being this Train, driver, train operator, what are the things that bother you the most? You know, what are the things that you are most worried about? Which areas are where you get a feeling of that I don't want to actually be here? And they tell you. So all they take, there might be an appliance, and the person will take your hand literally and say, come, I want to show you. And they'll go, look, something's fallen down here, and it's not safe. And if you ask them to tell their stories, they'll tell you where the next fatality is coming from. They'll tell you, and then you can prevent it. But now,

Bernard Swanepoel, guest · [37:56]imagine him going back tonight after shift. What is the story he goes and shares with wherever, whether he goes to a hostel or whether he goes back home? He says, you know what happened today? For the first time, somebody came and listened to me. He falls in love with the organization. I mean, that is how we fall in love. We can't shut up and listen enough to the other one. Later in life, we change it and we talk more and we fight. But no, it's the dynamic of I'm seen, I'm heard, I'm Important enough that somebody asked my opinion. I mean, it's for free. This is so cheap. Now, of course, it takes your time, but what are leaders there for? What are we there for if we're not there to listen to our people and to make them feel important? I mean, we can actually save on bonuses, dare I say.

Petro du Pisani, host · [42:46]Building upon, upon that theme, what techniques, tips, and tricks do you have for people who'd like to incorporate storytelling as their, in their repertoire of management tools?

Tracey Swanepoel, guest · [42:57]It's about the mindset. So of course there are specific skills that you can learn about that make, you know, you can go from zero to a hundred quickly. And I think the great thing is that it's, it doesn't have to be this natural talent, you know, wow, you, it's actually a recipe. You, everybody can do this. so there are definite practical things that you can do, you know, specific story frameworks, et cetera. But even in the absence of that, it's really about thinking about stories that, things that happen every day all around us. and what is the, you know, what is the business point? That's what we call it. What is the point that, that you could use to make that, you know, to make a business point about it? I mean, my son, Zach, quite, quite a few years ago, our son, Zach, although I'd like to take ownership of him in this, but, he was busy, in about grade two, and they were, the teacher was very enthusiastic to get them to read more. Now, Zach always was a great reader, you know, so the, but the, she put in place an incentive program. She said, you know, kids, if you, the more, if you read for ten minutes a day, you'll get a little tick, and then when you've got ten ticks, you'll get a little apple on the tree, and then you'll have a full tree of apples and, and all of that, so all great. Zach, at the time, was reading for way longer than ten minutes, and then he started, as this program was introduced, only reading for ten minutes. So I said to him, but why are you reading for ten minutes? He said, because I've, I've done my ten minutes. And therein lies the problem of incentives. So, you know, stories are all around us, and I think the tip is really just to, to obviously know the basics, what is the story, to be able to make them short, to the point, and to know the point, the business point that you're making. That would be my, you know, my tips. I think,

Bernard Swanepoel, guest · [44:47]I think those are absolutely the two key things, is the inner work environment, I mean, inner meeting, and there has to be a story with a purpose. There has to be a business reason for telling the story, and the shorter the better, and we all struggle with that, because, jeez, I mean, I need to give context, but after ten minutes, if you're still busy talking context, people have moved on. and then, I think the bold, the boldness to do, to be deliberate about it, you know, I really think Why is it that the moment we stand outside when, when the guys are smoking or, you know, when we drink coffee at the water cooler, then stories are okay, and it's al-almost as if when we walk through a set of glass doors into a boardroom, we need to be more formal. I think it's the deliberateness and the, and the go out to do that with an objective in mind is all I would add.