#019 Gordon Wilson | Purpose as a driver for human behaviour
4 April 2022 · 39 min · as at 2022-04-04
Petro du Pisani (host) · Gordon Wilson (guest)
Listen to the episode on iono.fm · MP3
About the guest
Gordon Wilson
Achievement Awards Group · Cape Town
Grew up in Durban and moved to the Cape about 10 years ago; works in the human performance improvement industry at Achievement Awards Group; UCT EMBA student whose research focused on purpose as a driver for human behaviour.
In Gordon's own words:
“I grew up in Durban most of my life there and, moved down to the Cape about 10 years ago in pursuit of, corporate challenges, which is where I find myself today.”
“I work in the human performance improvement industry for a company called Achievement Awards Group. Where we, we bring the, the science and the art of, business and people performance together.”
Guest details come from the published episode notes or the guest's own words in the episode.
Episode analysis
Analysis by AI, drawn only from this episode; every point links to the moment it rests on.
Host Petro talks with fellow UCT EMBA student Gordon Wilson, who works in the human performance improvement industry at Achievement Awards Group, about his research project on purpose as a driver of human behaviour from a leadership perspective. Gordon explains how the topic emerged from a business model innovation session, the interpretivist action research approach he used with 24 leader interviews, his four major findings, and practical actions at organisational, leader and HR levels. He also reflects on how the EMBA changed his way of working and recommends the programme.
Key ideas
- Gordon's research found purpose is important, citing literature linking purposeful people to better health, happiness, longevity and even higher earnings. [18:10]▸ [19:32]▸ [19:42]▸
- Gordon argues purpose is an intrinsic motivator: the drive to serve something bigger than oneself is a powerful motivational force. [20:07]▸
- Gordon holds that organisations can and should focus on profit and purpose equally, and that profit-only firms may hold themselves back. [17:41]▸ [20:55]▸ [21:21]▸ [21:54]▸
- Gordon frames leaders as stewards of an organisation's purpose, responsible for creating an environment where people's psychological needs can flourish. [22:31]▸ [22:47]▸
- From his 24 interviews, Gordon found personal and corporate purpose do not always align; alignment may exist at a functional level instead. [25:07]▸ [26:08]▸
- Gordon proposes putting purpose into practice at three levels: organisational, leader and HR. [27:06]▸ [27:09]▸ [27:35]▸ [27:57]▸ [30:55]▸
- Gordon describes the research itself acting as a change process in his company, leading his CEO to request a purpose communication. [31:59]▸ [32:23]▸
Putting purpose into practice at three levels
- Organisational level: elevate purpose to the same level as profit and craft a purpose statement that resonates and engages.
- Organisational level: secure buy-in at board and executive level and align strategy with purpose.
- Leader level: build emotional connection with purpose, show people they matter and how they fit the bigger picture.
- Leader level: lead by example through behavioural integrity and practise strategy with authenticity.
- HR level: revisit hiring, recruiting, development plans and career paths to align with purpose and values.
As described in the episode: [27:06]▸ [27:09]▸ [27:35]▸ [27:57]▸ [29:15]▸ [29:50]▸ [30:07]▸ [30:55]▸
Lessons
- Gordon advises that purpose will not take hold among staff unless board and executive leaders genuinely buy into it. [27:57]▸ [28:02]▸
- Gordon suggests leaders make people feel seen, heard and understood, and show how daily tasks connect to the bigger picture. [29:15]▸ [29:50]▸
- Petro's example shows a company purpose phrased so each employee can test their own work against it. [23:52]▸
- Gordon's supervisor advised starting research without a fixed answer and seeing where it leads. [17:11]▸
- Gordon says he now carves out time to improve himself and avoids the always-busy hamster wheel. [33:20]▸ [34:40]▸ [34:51]▸ [35:08]▸
Who it's for
Leaders, HR practitioners and culture or change professionals interested in making organisational purpose practical, and prospective Executive MBA students curious about the UCT GSB research experience.
Facts stated in the episode
- Gordon interviewed twenty-four leaders at his organisation for his research. [25:07]▸
- Gordon moved from Durban to the Cape about 10 years ago. [01:04]▸
- Gordon's EMBA cohort had about seventy other people. [36:17]▸
- Petro's mining company states its purpose as reimagining mining to improve people's lives. [23:52]▸
- Gordon's action proposals cover three levels: organisational, leader and human resources. [27:09]▸
Questions this episode answers
- Does having a sense of purpose actually make people healthier or more successful?Gordon says the literature he reviewed indicates purposeful people are healthier, happier, live longer, fulfil their potential and can earn more, citing one study where purpose-driven people earned more a decade later. [19:32]▸ [19:42]▸
- Should companies prioritise profit or purpose?Gordon argues both, equally: profit enables an organisation to expand its purpose, and companies focusing solely on profit may be holding themselves back. [21:21]▸ [21:54]▸
- Do employees need to share their company's purpose to find meaning at work?Gordon's interviews with 24 leaders suggested not always; people may find personal purpose in their work with alignment only at a functional level. Leaders should still try, and ensure people leave better off. [25:07]▸ [26:08]▸
- How can an organisation turn a purpose statement into daily practice?Gordon proposes actions at organisational, leader and HR levels, including board buy-in, aligning strategy, leaders showing people they matter, behavioural integrity, and aligning hiring and career paths. [27:06]▸ [27:09]▸ [27:35]▸ [27:57]▸ [30:55]▸
- What research method suits studying something subjective like purpose?Gordon used interpretivism, action research to generate data and thematic analysis to surface patterns, valuing that action research let him be participant and observer. [12:58]▸ [13:58]▸ [14:29]▸ [16:13]▸
- What role do leaders play in organisational purpose?Gordon describes leaders as stewards of purpose who create the environment where people's psychological needs flourish, lead by example and help people see how they fit the bigger picture. [22:31]▸ [22:47]▸ [29:50]▸ [30:07]▸
- Is the UCT Executive MBA worth doing?Gordon says absolutely, recommending it despite the intensity; he values its focus on viewing the world through a different lens and on personal transformation. [03:51]▸ [05:00]▸ [36:17]▸ [36:52]▸
In their own words
Longer stretches of the conversation, word for word from the transcript, turn by turn.
How purpose became Gordon's research topic
Note (AI): Shows how a business model innovation session revealed a purpose problem in his organisation and led to a purpose-centric culture model and the research topic.
Gordon Wilson, guest · [06:54]so into the good stuff. So let me start with the end in mind. So my title for my, my research project, ended up being Purpose as a Driver of Human Behavior, a Leadership Perspective. You know, there's a, a wonderful quote by George Bernard Shaw, where he said that this is the true joy in life, the being used for a purpose recognized by yourself as a mighty one. …
Read the full passage (441 words, 06:54–09:15)
Gordon Wilson, guest · [06:54]so into the good stuff. So let me start with the end in mind. So my title for my, my research project, ended up being Purpose as a Driver of Human Behavior, a Leadership Perspective. You know, there's a, a wonderful quote by George Bernard Shaw, where he said that this is the true joy in life, the being used for a purpose recognized by yourself as a mighty one. So for me personally, purpose has always resonated. You know, I've always felt that I'm part of something bigger than myself. felt that I'm here on this earth to make a positive difference in the lives of people. And, it was quite amazing, actually, in that purpose as a phenomenon started, started appearing, like, here and there in my position papers, especially in position paper four, which focused on business model innovation as integrative thinking practice. And you'll remember it well. I mean, we had to conduct those business model innovation sessions, and yeah, it was quite a nerve-wracking thing in the beginning, but it was in that, in that BMI session itself, you know, we were in the auditorium at my, at my office, and, we found that the problem we were actually trying to solve was, was one of purpose, and that the organization was not a purposeful or a purpose-driven organization. And it was quite a profound thing to, it was like a, a hard moment, almost. And it led to multiple questions, you know, and I started asking, all right, well, how do we activate our newly articulated purpose statement? Or, you know, how do we ensure that, that work is meaningful and that our people Or understand the meaning behind their work. And, you know, there was just so many questions, you know, like how do we nudge our people forward to act on our mission and our values, and, and how do we make sure that our purpose, you know, our corporate reason for existence is infused into, into every aspect of the business? So, yeah, it was, it was really thought-provoking stuff, and, you know, I don't want to get sidetracked on that position paper, but the output was a new purpose-centric model of organizational culture, which would shift an organization from, say, a hierarchical culture towards an, an entrepreneurial culture of, you know, purposeful action, putting people at the center, greater autonomy, and empowerment. So, yeah, I mean, I, I guess you, you might say that purpose grabbed my attention there, you know. Fast forward a, a few months later, and, I have my research topic, Purpose as a Driver of Human Behavior.
Interpretivism, action research and thematic analysis
Note (AI): Explains the research paradigm and methods chosen and why they suit a subjective phenomenon like purpose.
Gordon Wilson, guest · [12:58]So, I mean, research methodology, I won't chat about it too much, but I mean, you'll remember from block five, in, in those two weeks, they just bombarded us with all these different types of approaches to our research, and it was, it was quite hectic, actually. You know, there was just so many different, these phrases getting thrown at us, and brief explanations, and, and like, I think I …
Read the full passage (298 words, 12:58–14:39)
Gordon Wilson, guest · [12:58]So, I mean, research methodology, I won't chat about it too much, but I mean, you'll remember from block five, in, in those two weeks, they just bombarded us with all these different types of approaches to our research, and it was, it was quite hectic, actually. You know, there was just so many different, these phrases getting thrown at us, and brief explanations, and, and like, I think I finished that period quite confused, actually. But in the end, and a bit of help with my supervisor, I, the, the research paradigm that I adopted was interpretivism, in that, and I'll quote, I'll quote Blakey here, interpretives, Interpretivists believe that social reality is the product of its inhabitants. It is a world interpreted by the meanings that people create and recreate as a necessary part of their daily life. So from a philosophical standpoint, this was perfect, you know, because purpose is a, is a social construct that people create their own meaning, you know, specifically to them, it's subjective of what purpose means to them. So back to my, my research methodology. So within this paradigm of interpretivism, I adopted action research to generate data and meaning about the phenomenon of purpose, and then I used thematic analysis to analyze the data, and, I I hadn't used thematic analysis before, so it was really interesting, and my supervisor, Dr. Jean Bolton, she suggested it, and it worked out really well. So thematic analysis is a whole coding process where you, you code all your, your data extracts from all your qualitative interviews, but this thematic analysis actually allows you to surface repeated patterns and connect the themes that are, that are pulling through from those patterns in the data. So it was a lot of fun.
Findings one and two: purpose matters and motivates
Note (AI): Sets out the first two research findings, including cited evidence linking purpose to health, longevity and earnings.
Gordon Wilson, guest · [18:10]So there were multiple findings, and I was trying to think, you know, beforehand, knowing that we were going to chat, you know, how do I, how do I wrap them up? And I think I'll just chat about the four major outcomes that the research produced. So firstly, purpose is important. You know, that was my primary research question was, you know, is purpose important? What do we do …
Read the full passage (375 words, 18:10–20:28)
Gordon Wilson, guest · [18:10]So there were multiple findings, and I was trying to think, you know, beforehand, knowing that we were going to chat, you know, how do I, how do I wrap them up? And I think I'll just chat about the four major outcomes that the research produced. So firstly, purpose is important. You know, that was my primary research question was, you know, is purpose important? What do we do with that knowledge? So the first major outcome was, was purpose is important. So as a reason for being, or a driving force, a guiding star, the reason why we exist, a central reference point, you know, or even that, that thing that gets you out of bed in the morning, you know, which, whichever way you look at it, purpose is important. So this phenomenon of purpose as a, as an aspirational, orientational driving force, a reason for being in, in service of a, of a cause much greater than oneself, you know, it was just overwhelmingly evident in the research, you know. In fact, My findings highlighted the correlation, as you mentioned right in the beginning, you know, the correlation between living a purposeful life and the associated positive psychological and physical well-being effects. It's pretty awesome, actually. There's many studies, and I worked through so many different works of literature and bodies of knowledge, you know, which indicate that purposeful people are healthier, they're happier, they tend to live longer, they tend to fulfill their potential, and they can even achieve and earn more. There was this one brilliant study that looked at purpose-driven people ten years apart versus non-purpose-driven people. They found that these guys actually earned more a decade later than people who weren't purpose-driven. So, I mean, there's so many studies, and there's starting to be more and more studies into purpose both at a corporate level as well as an academic level, which is fantastic. Secondly, so my second major finding was that purpose is an intrinsic motivator. So purpose as the, the underlying drive to do something because it is in service of something bigger than ourselves, or because it's interesting, or because it matters to us personally, that's an incredibly powerful motivational force for human beings.
Findings three and four: profit balance and leaders' role
Note (AI): Argues organisations should weigh profit and purpose equally and frames leaders as stewards of purpose.
Gordon Wilson, guest · [20:55]The third major finding from my research was that organizations need to balance their focus. So, you know, you remember Milton, Milton Friedman, the economist back in the seventies, he said that, you know, the, the purpose of a business is to make profit, but, you know, that's not true anymore. Sure, purpose, I mean, businesses need profit, but purpose is so important, so organizations need to balance their focus. …
Read the full passage (399 words, 20:55–23:14)
Gordon Wilson, guest · [20:55]The third major finding from my research was that organizations need to balance their focus. So, you know, you remember Milton, Milton Friedman, the economist back in the seventies, he said that, you know, the, the purpose of a business is to make profit, but, you know, that's not true anymore. Sure, purpose, I mean, businesses need profit, but purpose is so important, so organizations need to balance their focus. My research indicated that organizations can and should focus on both profit and purpose equally, you know, because profit actually is the primary driver which enables an organization to affect and expand its purpose in the wider ecology in society. So it really is a, a both-and situation. You know, it's, organizations can focus on both. They can and they should. What is even more interesting, actually, is that companies that focus solely on profit, and this was just Showed up in a few bits of literature that I read is that, you know, companies that focus solely on profit at the expense of, of purpose, they could in fact actually be holding themselves back. You know, they, they are actually limiting the impact they could have as an organization, and, you know, they could actually never reach their full potential as an organization in the form of, you know, corporate flourishment. Finally, the, the fourth major finding of my research was that, that leaders play a significant role. So, you know, leaders have agency, they can and should choose a, a virtue ethics approach to modern day business. there was this fantastic research I found, and I, I can't remember who it was by at the moment, but they, they spoke to leaders as being the stewards of an organization's purpose, and as such, as stewards of an organization's purpose, leaders play a significant role in that leader-follower relationship. So, you know, at the end of the day, Key findings was that, you know, leaders are, are actually responsible for creating the environment in which the, the inherent psychological needs of people can flourish. and through this, this enabling of, of individual expression to, to blossom, you know, in service of, of, of the greater good, leaders are, are actually doing good, you know, they're leading by example, and at the same time, they need to purposely frame a strategic approach that meets the needs of all stakeholders.
Putting purpose into practice at organisation and leader level
Note (AI): Gives the practical actions arising from the research: board buy-in, strategy alignment, emotional connection and making people feel they matter.
Gordon Wilson, guest · [27:06]So I let my mind wander a bit, and, I came up with actions. So that could be implemented by organizations to help them put purpose into practice at, three different levels. You know, these were organizational level, leader level, and human resources level. And I won't talk too long, but I'll just touch quickly, you know, just the high-level points at each of those three levels. So, you know, …
Read the full passage (461 words, 27:06–29:44)
Gordon Wilson, guest · [27:06]So I let my mind wander a bit, and, I came up with actions. So that could be implemented by organizations to help them put purpose into practice at, three different levels. You know, these were organizational level, leader level, and human resources level. And I won't talk too long, but I'll just touch quickly, you know, just the high-level points at each of those three levels. So, you know, if we are wanting to put purpose into practice at an organizational level, the, the organization needs to elevate the focus on purpose to the same level as profit. The organizations need to, they need to craft and articulate a purpose statement that resonates and engages. I mean, you guys have done that brilliantly at your organization. What's really important as well is that organizations need to ensure that there is buy-in. You need buy-in at board level and executive level to, to the purpose of the organization, because if it's not encapsulated in the hearts and minds of our leaders, it's never going to take hold in the hearts of our people. And, and this was another very interesting one is that at organizational level, we need to make sure that, that strategy, our strategy as an organization is aligned with our purpose. I mean, it, it seems simple in, in theory, but, you know, in reality, it's not always the case. So at the, at the second level, you know, of putting purpose into practice was looked at leader level. So, so what should leaders be doing? And, the, the first point there I was thinking of is that leaders need to have an emotional connection with the organization's purpose. You can't have leaders who are fulfilling a task-filled role. They don't buy wholeheartedly to what the organization's trying to achieve in the wider ecology. Leaders also need to, they need to foster meaningful connection, you know, with their people. it was, it was one of Adam Grant's papers, it was published in 2012, I think, where he said that leaders play a critical role in managing the meaning that followers make out of their work. So continuing, and there's a few more points at, at leader level, leaders need to show their people that they matter. So they need to make them feel seen, heard, and understood. You know, that's, that's something that any human being wants, is they want to know that they are seen, heard, and understood. And it's important that, that leaders show people that they matter. This was a, a, almost a secondary concept that came up was this concept of mattering, and, there's a whole lot of research actually going into that concept of mattering, that people want to feel that they matter.
How the EMBA changed Gordon's way of working
Note (AI): Describes concrete changes in his working habits: systemic thinking, intentionality and time set aside for reading and mindfulness.
Gordon Wilson, guest · [33:20]So this MBA, this two-year journey has been amazing, and it's got me, it's got me really excited about the future, to be honest, you know, I'm just so much more aware of the, that there's so much, there's so much available, there's so much to explore, so much more meaningful impact to be affected and, and more value to be created. So it has definitely changed the way I …
Read the full passage (380 words, 33:20–35:25)
Gordon Wilson, guest · [33:20]So this MBA, this two-year journey has been amazing, and it's got me, it's got me really excited about the future, to be honest, you know, I'm just so much more aware of the, that there's so much, there's so much available, there's so much to explore, so much more meaningful impact to be affected and, and more value to be created. So it has definitely changed the way I think and I work. I, I just like to think that I'm far more systemic in my thinking, you know, thinking around how the constituent parts interrelate within the whole system, and, you know, what, what the causal impacts of decisions we make in, in isolation, you know, what impact that can have on, on the rest of the system. And, Yeah, you know, the, the entire MBA process, the, the two years, they flew by, to be honest, even though it was so busy and intense and full of pressure, but the whole two-year journey has, has changed the way I work. So I spend, I spend far more time now on improving myself and my craft as I, as I aim to, to increase my mastery, you know, as it relates to my field and my passion, you know, understanding the, the purpose of a human life and how best we can solve business problems, you know, because people, they're at the heart of everything. And I'm also far more intentional, so I'm trying to focus more on producing quality work and not running on the always busy hamster wheel like I used to. I just used to be constantly busy, and it's not a great way to work. You don't produce quality work when you're always just busy running from one thing to the next. So I've adopted an approach to I Carving out a pocket of time during the day to, to read, to practice mindfulness, and to learn, you know, because I've, I've come to understand that I can't improve the human condition without improving myself first. And, you know, perhaps another quote, I love it, but, perhaps it was Leonardo da Vinci that, said it best, you know, when he said that one can have no smaller or greater mastery than mastery of oneself.
Quotes
“this is the true joy in life, the being used for a purpose recognized by yourself as a mighty one.”
“most of us go to our graves with our music still inside us, unplayed.”
“each day is a gift and, you, you never know when, When you're going to have your last day.”
“all business research is action research. It all leads to action.”
“companies that focus solely on profit at the expense of, of purpose, they could in fact actually be holding themselves back.”
“if it's not encapsulated in the hearts and minds of our leaders, it's never going to take hold in the hearts of our people.”
“You don't produce quality work when you're always just busy running from one thing to the next.”
“I can't improve the human condition without improving myself first.”
“one can have no smaller or greater mastery than mastery of oneself.”
“Chris Breen in his sessions, he just smashed our egos, which was beautiful,”
What was said, by topic
Background
“I grew up in Durban most of my life there and, moved down to the Cape about 10 years ago in pursuit of, corporate challenges, which is where I find myself today.”
“I work in the human performance improvement industry for a company called Achievement Awards Group. Where we, we bring the, the science and the art of, business and people performance together.”
Purpose as a driver of behaviour
“I'm fascinated with human behavior. So specifically around how and why people make decisions and what we can do with that knowledge to better understand, predict, and influence human behavior.”
“it was in that, in that BMI session itself, you know, we were in the auditorium at my, at my office, and, we found that the problem we were actually trying to solve was, was one of purpose, and that the organization was not a purposeful or a purpose-driven organization.”
“I lost my mom last year, you know, so you sort of think, you know, what am I supposed to be doing? You get that whole sense and we lost a lot of people last year as well to COVID.”
“which indicate that purposeful people are healthier, they're happier, they tend to live longer, they tend to fulfill their potential, and they can even achieve and earn more.”
“There was this one brilliant study that looked at purpose-driven people ten years apart versus non-purpose-driven people. They found that these guys actually earned more a decade later than people who weren't purpose-driven.”
“Secondly, so my second major finding was that purpose is an intrinsic motivator. So purpose as the, the underlying drive to do something because it is in service of something bigger than ourselves, or because it's interesting, or because it matters to us personally, that's an incredibly powerful motivational force for human beings.”
Executive MBA experience
“the EMBA's got a, it's got a far greater focus on, on one's ability to, to view the world through, through a different lens, to conceptualize and to strategize, you know, as opposed to, I find, you know, most traditional MBAs are, they just focus on improving your proficiency in, in functional management.”
“But for me personally, and this was one of the draw cards to the, the executive MBA, was the softer stuff. So that focus around your personal transformation, your personal and authentic leadership, mindfulness practice, reflexivity, self-mastery,”
“through writing position papers, five, five specific position papers, the things that I wrote in those papers, I'll never forget them, because you spend so many weeks writing and researching and putting it in your own words that it's something that's going to stay with you forever.”
“I walked in on that first day, and, you know, chest was out, and thought, yeah, I'm the man, you know, executive MBA, and there were like seventy other people, and yeah, I quickly realized that I'm like, like, nothing compared to some of these people.”
“so for anyone who, who's wondering whether or not it's worth it, it's absolutely worth doing an MBA. I would recommend it any day of the week.”
Putting purpose into practice
“the output was a new purpose-centric model of organizational culture, which would shift an organization from, say, a hierarchical culture towards an, an entrepreneurial culture of, you know, purposeful action, putting people at the center, greater autonomy, and empowerment.”
“So the, the purpose of the company, as stated, is to reimagine mining to improve people's lives, okay? So which, with each and every pers, piece of work that you do, you can go, by doing this piece of work, am I improving people's life?”
“I came up with actions. So that could be implemented by organizations to help them put purpose into practice at, three different levels. You know, these were organizational level, leader level, and human resources level.”
“the organization needs to elevate the focus on purpose to the same level as profit. The organizations need to, they need to craft and articulate a purpose statement that resonates and engages.”
“You need buy-in at board level and executive level to, to the purpose of the organization, because if it's not encapsulated in the hearts and minds of our leaders, it's never going to take hold in the hearts of our people.”
“HR needs to, they need to revisit their hiring practices, you know, particularly around leadership and, future leadership hires, you know, to ensure that there is alignment both at a, at a personal level and at a values level.”
“one of the outcomes was, our CEO asking me to craft a communication to the entire business, to tell them what our purpose is and, and what it means to be a purpose-driven company,”
Research methodology
“So within this paradigm of interpretivism, I adopted action research to generate data and meaning about the phenomenon of purpose, and then I used thematic analysis to analyze the data,”
“thematic analysis actually allows you to surface repeated patterns and connect the themes that are, that are pulling through from those patterns in the data.”
“no matter what research methodology you choose, it all ends up being the same type of thing. You gather data, you get themes, you group them together, and you discuss the themes.”
“I quite enjoyed action research as the, as the approach because it allowed me to be both participant and observer, you know, within the context of my research,”
“all business research is action research. It all leads to action. It has to lead to action, otherwise why are you doing it?”
“But my supervisor, Jean Bolton, right from the beginning, she said, don't have any ideas of what final answer might be. She said, you know, just approach the research, start the research, and just see where it takes you.”
“Joe Raylan said that sometimes the research itself is a change process, and we started finding that happening.”
Profit and purpose balance
“And what do we do with this knowledge to drive both business health and human flourishing? You know, in my mind, for me, you cannot have one or the other.”
“My research indicated that organizations can and should focus on both profit and purpose equally, you know, because profit actually is the primary driver which enables an organization to affect and expand its purpose in the wider ecology in society.”
“companies that focus solely on profit at the expense of, of purpose, they could in fact actually be holding themselves back.”
Leadership and purpose
“they, they spoke to leaders as being the stewards of an organization's purpose, and as such, as stewards of an organization's purpose, leaders play a significant role in that leader-follower relationship.”
“leaders are, are actually responsible for creating the environment in which the, the inherent psychological needs of people can flourish.”
“I interviewed twenty-four leaders at our organization, and, a lot of those findings were that Sometimes there, that there isn't always alignment at a purpose level, but there's alignment at a functional level.”
“But as leaders, we should, we should make sure that they leave our organization better off than, than when they started with us.”
“leaders need to show their people that they matter. So they need to make them feel seen, heard, and understood.”
“If you, for example, have a call center agent, they need to know that what they're doing on a day-to-day basis, how does that fit into the bigger picture?”
“There was another incredibly interesting thing that came up in the research was this notion of behavioral integrity, and I mean, it sounds fancy, but it's just, it's where your words and your actions align.”
Personal transformation
“I'm trying to focus more on producing quality work and not running on the always busy hamster wheel like I used to.”
“I've come to understand that I can't improve the human condition without improving myself first.”
Episode notes (as published)
From the episode notes published with the podcast.
A learning journey conversation with a fellow EMBA student. In this episode Petro speaks to fellow UCT EMBA student, Gordon Wilson (Achievement Awards Group) Over the past two years we have been working towards our Executive MBAs through the University of Cape Town's Graduate Business School. With classes moving on-line due to the covid-19 pandemic there wasn't enough time (for me) to connect with fellow students and hear about their research projects. I decided to interview my fellow students to hear about their research. In this podcast I ask Gordon about his research, which focused on how purpose is a driver for human behaviour. Gordon tells me more about why he chose this topic, how he did the research and what his major findings were. He also shares how this research changed him and the way he thinks about purpose. Find out more about Gordon Wilson · Find out more about UCT's EMBA programme · Connect with Petro · Solid Gold Podcasts
Every quotation and passage on this page is copied word for word from the episode audio transcript and linked to the moment it was said. Quotations are never written or altered by AI; topic labels, passage notes and the episode analysis are AI-generated. Guest details come from the published episode notes or the guest's own words.
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