#037 Pausing to Pivot | Pamela Naidoo-Ameglio

Pamela Naidoo-Ameglio, guest · [01:43]Sure. Well, back in 2015, I'd been about 20 years into mining at that point, and I'd, pretty much reached many of the goals that I'd wanted to in mining. So I had been thinking about what would be next. The driver for actually taking a break, though, was I'd been through a takeover of the mine I was working on, another company. I was actually holding down three roles and getting close to burnout and realized I didn't have the support, needed to be able to continue and thought, well, this is it. I'll quit. I'll take time off to think about what I really want to do and how to get there. So that precipitated my resigning in what was the middle of one of the mining downturns, but I had sufficient confidence in myself to do it anyway. Yeah,

Petro du Pisani, host · [02:40]it's amazing how, and I've heard this from many people, that you have to get so close to burnout before you decide you're going to take the break. So I'm wondering why that is.

Pamela Naidoo-Ameglio, guest · [02:53]I think it's, it's being comfortable. You know, you get into a comfort zone, you do what, you know, you can do, you build on past successes, and it's quite scary to take the next step in making the change. For me, recognizing that I was getting close to burnout meant that I could now give myself permission to make that, to stop and to make the change, which was an interesting observation for myself at the time.

Pamela Naidoo-Ameglio, guest · [07:50]It did turn out to be a little different, I must admit. I got the assignment done, which was fantastic, so I graduated from the company director's course, and that was step one in my grand plan of, of making a change in my career. I took some time out to reflect on things and journal a little, but I'm a very impatient person, so that didn't work out as well as I thought it would. I did go on that fantastic holiday to Cairns and the Great Barrier Reef off by myself on an adventure, and, that was awesome. just spent a week in I remember it was the middle of winter. It was snowing in New South Wales and I was in tropical Cairns in a sundress. It was just awesome. And it felt really good to get away from everything on my own. But when I got back, I realized, well, there was going to be quite a lot of work to do in terms of, job hunting. But it was very deliberate because I knew I was using this time to change what I wanted to do. And what I wanted was to work more broadly than in mining. I knew that I needed to diversify my skill set. And so I was looking for very different types of roles, which, you know, meant that it could take a very long time to find it, because I was not what people were looking for. I had to sell my skills. And It actually went a lot faster than I expected. I mean, I did apply for 30-odd roles and had about three or four interviews, but the role I actually got happened very quickly, and they wanted me to start rather soon as well, which meant that the other half of my holiday plans had to go awry, which was a pity.

Pamela Naidoo-Ameglio, guest · [10:23]exactly, because some of the things, well, okay, I knew that I didn't want to be purely technical, and I wanted to be much broader in my set of experiences that I built up, because the goal I was working towards was moving out of the mining industry into another industry. What that other was, was an unknown, but I knew that I had to develop transferable skills, and I was very interested in technology and science, so I knew it would be a science-based organization. I didn't really spend too much time on what I didn't want, apart from knowing that I didn't want to burn myself out again. What did you learn from that three months of taking a break? I suppose rely on my previous experience more. In the time leading up to, to taking the time off, I was actually, I suppose, mentally more anguished because I was suffering a lack of self-esteem and trying to keep on top of everything and not having the support to do so. And I think that erosion of self-esteem went deeper than I expected because the relief from not having to do that was fantastic. I could build myself up to my usual levels of, of self-confidence and self-reliance. And it made me realize that I should never get to that point again to un, you know, understand what the warning signs were and to, to take time out and nurture myself more. So I think the nurturing is mostly what I got out of it. And remembering That I have the ability to make changes and, be more adventurous. So what do you wish you'd done more of on your break? I do wish I'd taken more holiday time than spent more time job hunting.

Pamela Naidoo-Ameglio, guest · [13:13]So, for me, it, it looks like a lot of answering questions of what I like my ideal job to be, you know, there's quizzes out there. Pros and cons of looking at different roles that I come across, whether they interested me or not. Revisiting some of the personality analyses, I guess you would call them. Things like you had Myers-Briggs I'd done ages ago, and any feedback I got from performance reviews. But also, I spent a bit of time asking people whom I was close to, or whose opinion mattered to me, what they thought my strengths were, and my areas of development, and I think I got the most out of that, actually asking people what they thought, and sort of comparing that feedback to what I thought of myself, and Directions I can go. What was the most useful piece of advice you got? I guess throughout it all, what helped me a lot was how much those people I reached out to were prepared to take time out to talk to me and to support me in the process.

Pamela Naidoo-Ameglio, guest · [15:05]your current workspace? I guess to continue the story, I did eventually leave mining in a short period of time, and I moved into the nuclear industry, and that pivot from mining To a different industry was very deliberate, as I said. It's something that career break gave me time to think about and to chart out in terms of goals and possible steps and how I could build the skills to make that career pivot. And I use the word pivot very deliberately because it was something I, I now use when I chat to my mentees in STEM who are also looking at how they can chart their way through their careers. You know, be able to provide them some advice in that it's not necessarily a straight line. There are times you deviate, there are times you deliberately head off in a different direction. So, you know, that's one aspect that I take forward. The other is very much about taking care of myself and ensuring that when I'm doing too much that I start unpacking it and Focusing in on what I can do and, and what I can put off during that time. finally, oh yes, to take those holiday breaks when I can and go for it because you never know when something else is going to happen and you have to change plans again.

Pamela Naidoo-Ameglio, guest · [17:32]I have, yes. And it's, you know, it's taught me to, to reach out earlier to ask for help, and if help's not forthcoming, then to make some, you know, further decisions on what I do and don't do. It's interesting because during the COVID pandemic, it got to a point where it was starting to feel similar, where it was constant, constant work because, you know, running a nuclear reactor and nuclear medicine production for Australia meant we were constantly on as a, an essential service. And with not being able to get away, because there were also very strict restrictions as to where you could move, you know, within like five kilometers of your home and so on. that sense of being restricted also weighed me down. And I realized, like, I'm starting to feel like I did back then, around about the time when I thought I should take a break. So I started doing these mini breaks, you know, a, a weekend with not looking at the computer or the phone, and just very deliberately doing something different. Because I'd learned the importance of being mentally switched off and having a, a refresher that way. So, you know, that is something that, helped me through that timeframe, and which continues now. I actually have a very, good example that I follow in my workplace of a colleague who takes a, he calls it a, a mental health break every couple of Fridays. He takes the time off to have a long weekend. And I thought, that's actually a really sensible thing to do. And so that's been one of my learnings about taking care of myself to, be able to do what I need to do work-wise and support my teams and in the, what is quite a complex environment.

Petro du Pisani, host · [19:43]I have this concept which I call the sabbatical mindset. And it almost sounds like these mini breaks and mental health breaks are part of taking your sabbatical mindset back into the workplace with you and to maintain that break feeling

Pamela Naidoo-Ameglio, guest · [20:00]even in between work. Absolutely. You were saying earlier, I've owed myself three months, somewhere down the line. I actually don't feel I owe myself that anymore because I've been taking the time deliberately. You know, it may not be a long period of time, but I feel that even if I take a, a long weekend, that I am, I've learned how to disconnect enough to make it count. So, yes, I, I think, you know, I would call that a sabbatical mindset, certainly.